The Agora

cucchulainnn · Guest

Hi, hail and well met

I just saw your documentary on IFC and have a question. Why didn’t you use tactics? You’re Laconian and you didn’t forum up in a hoplite phalanx you didn’t even use a rudimentary shield wall. Is there some sort of rules forbidding it? I used to be a mercenary in the SCA and fought at Pennsic war a few times. Not sure if you’re familiar with Pennsic. It’s two weeks of field battles with up too 10,000 fighters on the field at once. Granted I haven’t played with them since the 1990’s. I currently study WMA in the German long-sword tradition. Unfortunately historic fighting systems don’t translate well into boffers.

It looks like you use similar injury rules as the SCA.

A basic tactic that the mercenary group I used to fight with used and would have helped you:

2 man combat teams, a shield bearer and a pole arm man. The shield bearer job is to block incoming blows and tangle the weapons of the man facing him. He also stands directly in-between the foe and pole-arm man. The pole-arm’s only job is to kill things. the pole-arm fights over the shoulder of the shield bearer. Now apply this to a shield wall. The first rank is shield bearers and the second rank is pole-arms. If you stay in formation you can beat teams up to ratios of 3-5 easily. If the other side doesn’t use formations like they didn’t do in the movie then the beatable ratio goes up. 30 men in formation can easily beat 50. I won’t even get into flanking.

0nce again Hail and well met.

Iltztafein Derahel · Posted: Tue, November 13, 2007, 7:22:51pm Post subject:

I'm not a Laconian, but I'm friends with them...

Anyway...

Most Darkonians will tell you that phalanx tactics are useless. All they do is cluster you, which makes you fodder for area of effect weaponry, such as siege weapons and fireballs.

Two mean formations can be useful, but many times, it's hard to poke around shields in Darkon. And all the opponent would have to do is move in and shield bash you both.
_________________
~Iltztafein
~~Brother of the Empyrean

cucchulainnn · Guest

ok

got ya

i read the rules and see what you mean. the magic system, bounciness of the padding and head shot rules would disqualify most formations. too bad, formation fighting is a lot of fun. and when you do it right it really dose make a huge difference on how many people you can take.

have you ever fought in a shield wall? now that is living. most people have metal or wood shields with steel bosses. your shield braced on your shoulder and sword held in high guard. four ranks deep marching forward like a multi ton monster. every one behind you has a stabbing spear or halberd. the second and third ranks have the spears held forward ready to jab the face or head of a foe. the initial clash makes a booming and grinding type noise. we grind the shields against each other trying to either push the other side back or over at the same time tangling as many spear points as you can. don't worry about hits the spear-men behind you are trusting and jabbing froward. they will do the killing for you. the last rank pushes every one keeping up the pressure. we stand chest to chest toe to toe, in the press the only thing you can move is your sword arm. i used an axe because i could use it like a hook and still tag people if necessary. the grinding of shields and shouting is so loud it drowns out every thing else. every once in a wile you could hear a helmet ring like a bell, LOL, that was a good indication that some one forgot about the halberds. unless it was your helm that rang. Very Happy

cucchulainnn · Guest

ahh

i see you guys are not very friendly. ohh well, it's always nice to talk about strategies and tactics. i guess this is not the place. it is better to be a big fish in a small pond then a guppy in an ocean.

your right formation fighting is useless. it has never worked. i can't think of any historic battles that where won because of tactics, formations, and strategies. lets just run at each other and hope for the best, that will work , it has to work, i can't think of anything else that could possibly work.

below are some photos of battles at pennsic war, they are only about 5,000 to 7,000 men on the field. the sca may have problems but at least they are friendly. i leave you to your pond.

Iltztafein Derahel · Posted: Sat, November 17, 2007, 4:14:20am Post subject:

Not many people read this very often. I'm sure if people read it, they'd reply. I already told you what I thought of your tactics and how they'd work in Darkon (which is to say that they would not).

Sorry if you feel that was rude or something.
_________________
~Iltztafein
~~Brother of the Empyrean

Absolom · Posted: Mon, November 19, 2007, 8:55:38pm Post subject:

Hail and well met, cucchulainnn. Iltztafein is right: We aren't on these boards very often, though we're working to put an end to that. Smile

The problem with shield walls in Darkon is that unless you're in a bridge or structure battle where it's impossible for flankers to get around you, the wall will get broken up very quickly. Most countries in Darkon adopt flanking or "sketchie" fighting styles and when the shield wall is only 8-10 people thick, it's easy to get around and stab people from behind. Furthermore, spells like Fireball and Warp Wood can bring down an entire shield wall in a matter of seconds.

We do, however, attempt to keep the phalanx tradition alive as best we can. I invite you to come to one of our events and talk it over in person. Your presence would be an honor.

Athene light your path,

Absolom